Update on the Thieving Bint

[christinex1001]

Looks like she took all her stories down. I don't know whether it's because I reported her to ff.n, or whether the gals at stop_plagiarism got all up in her business or what, but I guess it doesn't matter at this point.

In a way I'm kind of sad, just because I realized at dinner last night that not only was she plagiarizing, she was also violating copyright, since POTO is in the public domain and No Return has been formally published (ISBN and everything!). It would have been sort of fun to threaten her with legal action, but alas, chérie, it was not to be. :-P

Comments

[gega-cai.livejournal.com]

I only just joined ffnet after years of fearing plagerism. I finally decided to join, but it stanks when this happens.

Good thing they took it down. Unfortunately, you'll always be on the look out.

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

As far as I know, it's the first time this has happened to me, and I've been on ff.n for almost five years now. So I don't think it's a den of thievery (a pit of badfic, yes, but that's a different story).

I'll just have to rely on my readers to alert me to this sort of thing, since I don't really read fanfic as a rule and definitely don't have the time to keep an eye on all the fandoms I've written in to see if someone's ripped off one of my stories. Oy.

[gega-cai.livejournal.com]

How do they @ stop_plagiarism work? They confront the writer and inform the site the plagiarized fic is posted that it should be taken down?

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

I really don't know. They're not terribly communicative. I think they contact the author first in most cases, but I'm not sure. So I don't know if she took her stories down because they contacted her, or because I filed an abuse report with ff.n. They haven't gotten back to me -- I found out about her stories being gone because I went to check for myself.

I've heard they can really crawl up someone's ass, but so far I have to say I'm not super-impressed in terms of their communication.

[evendia.livejournal.com]

I found that crap fic by sheer coincidence, because I don't go into the Phantom category often these days. I just thought the summary sounded promising only to realize a few lines in that I got the feeling I'd read this before - only much better written.

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

It's kind of sad how pathetically bad her "own" writing was. Shit, I did better than that at 16. Scratch that -- I wrote better when I was 11. :-P

[harmony-bites.livejournal.com]

Not just FFN is subject to this, it seems endemic to fandom, particularly those that are pretty big--since for some reason people often plagiarize within fandoms and ships, and in the smaller ones, people know each others stuff so well they don't dare--but I know of a case of plagiarism that was discovered on one of the moderated archives--the person had plagiarized an X-files fic word for word only the glint in Skinner's glasses became the glitter in Snape's eyes and so on.

I really, really don't get this sort of plagiarism. The kind done in a speech or article under the pressures of deadlines yes. The kind seen in homeworks across the land yes. But plagiarism in fanfic where your only "pay" is reviews--what possible satistfaction can you get from someone praising words you know aren't your own? That goes for more than one "adaptation" I've seen that borrows Waaaaaaaaay too much from the original source.

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

I really don't get it, either. As you said, at least in homework or what-have-you, the person doing the plagiarizing has a real reason to do so (a bad one, but at least it makes some sense). All I can think is that the people who plagiarize fanfic must be so damaged in some way that they're desperate for praise no matter how they get it, and it doesn't even matter that the words aren't theirs as long as they have a certain number of reviews or comments. Scary.

[harmony-bites.livejournal.com]

There's an interesting case in HP fandom, of interest because the author is now a successful author in YA, and was a Super!BNF in HP, in fact people tell me she was THE HP BNF. I mean Cassandra Clare:

http://www.journalfen.net/community/bad_penny/8985.html

The thing is, she was reported to FFN for plagiarism--apparently she lifted entire scenes, particularly from a out of print fantasy book, as well as a host of lines, unattributed from media sources like Red Dwarf, Buffy...

Despite that she was lauded in fandom for years, and apparently part of the reason she got published, is because she could boast a huge f-list based on her fanfic she could point to, and she was published under her fandom name to make the most of that. And now authors like Tamora Pierce and Holly Black are lauding her talents...

So I guess even with fandom, the stakes can be high...

It exists in profic too. I know Smart Bitches, Trashy Books went after a pro romance author for lifting huge swatches off sources uncredited for her story. They think this is actually a common problem in romance.

I'm glad at least you were able to beat this particular violator back...

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah -- I read the entire saga of Cassandra Clare someplace online. It was truly epic (and I must have been really bored that day).

Maybe I have too many morals, but personally I wouldn't want success if it was based on ripping off other people's work (now, if I could get Lucas to pay me to write EU profic, that's a different story).

Wasn't the plagiarist the Smart Bitches excoriated Cassie Edwards? Is there something about the name Cassandra that makes you want to steal other people's work? Inquiring minds want to know.

[harmony-bites.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was Cassie Edwards, and no, I wouldn't want success at that price either, and I can't believe that even in a pure pragmatic sense, it wouldn't bite you back. Karma, baby. Someone linked me to a Tamora Pierce post where someone who knew HP brought the brouhaha up when Pierce rec'd CC's book. Pierce's attitude was, well, it's fanfic. So my feeling is they feel, hey, its all stolen anyway, and who cares it's all trash anyway.

I think they'd be less forgiving though if you did this as a pro the way Cassie Edwards did.

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

I hate that attitude about it not counting just because it was fanfic. It's one thing to write fanfic for a fandom where the author has expressly forbidden it (like Anne Rice), but if an author/screenwriter/etc. doesn't have a problem with it, then it isn't stolen as long as the fic writer isn't trying to make money off it.

Also, as someone who writes both original novels and fanfic, I have to say that fanfic often requires more effort, since it's not my own world and I don't have unlimited power to change things. There's a lot of research involved.

I haven't read anything by Tamora Pierce, and frankly, if that's her attitude, I'm pretty sure I never will.

[harmony-bites.livejournal.com]

I hate that attitude about it not counting just because it was fanfic. It's one thing to write fanfic for a fandom where the author has expressly forbidden it (like Anne Rice), but if an author/screenwriter/etc. doesn't have a problem with it, then it isn't stolen as long as the fic writer isn't trying to make money off it.

I agree, and I wrote btw a legal defense of fan fiction in a paper for law school and my professor, an entertainment lawyer for major players who wrote the copywright textbook, felt my arguments had merit. There had been a circuit court decision fairly recently then based on solid arguments about fair use that allowed the publication of an unauthorized sequel to Gone With the Wind specifically because it took on issues (slavery, misogyny) the estate wasn't willing to have addressed in the authorized sequels. IOWs, "fanfic" - even that professionally published - can be seen as a form of criticism.

Yes, I'd say that's true even of many a SSHG. I never liked the idea you could "sort" 11-year old children into evil and good and part of why I glommed onto a Slytherincentric POV. And yes, I do think morally and ethically and even legally it's another kettle of fish when the copyright owner allows, even encourages fanfic--unlike say Anne Rice. There's evidence though fanfic helps a franchise, which is why I understand you can now write Anne McCaffrey fic where in the past they forbid it.

However, the other side to the issue is that copyright is a writer's bread and butter, so anything horning in is understandably seen as a threat. As you know, from what was done to you, you also can feel personally violated if your words are appropriated--some feel that way about someone using their characters and world in ways they'd never do (like pairing Snape and Hermione--or Draco and Harry). I know Diana Gabaldon has said the very idea of others writing her characters makes her feel ill. Robin McKinley acknowledges its good practice, but her agent doesn't want it allowed--among other things they fear if it's out there openly, and she ever writes a novel with the same elements, there could be accusations of plagiarism.

And finally, there are people out there not familiar with fanfic that knowing its amateur assume its trash, and as someone who trolls SSHG regularly for recs, I can tell you 95 percent of it *is* trash. Very, very, very, VERY few fanficers are at a professional level--and I mean even professional by romance novel standards.

Not to mention the material out there that is out and out embarrassing. MPREG (male pregnancy) MLC (Marriage Law fics where Snape and Hermione are forced to marry) chan (very underage Hermiones and Harrys out there. The major Snape/Harry archive has categories for it: Harry - 11 to 12; Harry - 12 to 13 and so on.) Really hard kinks, rapefic, etc. I can just imagine say O'Reilly doing a segment after a staffer just casually scrounging around. It wouldn't be pretty.

I haven't read anything by Tamora Pierce, and frankly, if that's her attitude, I'm pretty sure I never will.

I'm generalizing about the general attitude, but it would be unfair actually to categorize what she said that way:

But is that fair? She was a younger writer, trying to find her style. She had all this uproar, and people have slammed her from here to Vladivostock. Isn't everyone entitled to a few mistakes when they're beginners? It's not like she made money off of what she did.

I wouldn't want anyone to hold my first mistakes against me.

- Tamora Pierce

I think I inferred her attitude ran that way because of how easily she dismissed the seriousness of the charges against CC. This is the LJ post:

http://tammypierce.livejournal.com/11622.html

Pierce is a YA writer who writes very strong female characters and I love her worldbuilding. She may not be your cuppa, some of her novels have ze dreaded head hopping (particularly her "Circle Books" where I believe its a deliberate choice but doesn't really pull off omniscience) and she's book saidism city. So yeah, I'd say I have stylistic issues, but her books are a great read--truly.

[suburbanbeatnik.livejournal.com]

That is so weird. And ridiculous. I'm glad it was resolved though-- stupid girl! Didn't she know how foolish it was to run afoul of the Empire?

I wanted to say hi before I went underground again... it's like I've been on a nonstop busy train. I so want to get back to my fanfic, but it's going to be another week or so before I have the time. :P

[christinex1001.livejournal.com]

She obviously didn't know who she was messing with. :-P

It's OK -- between various bogosities at work, the sinus infection that WON'T GO AWAY (feh), and my own sucktastic writer's block, I probably wouldn't have been worth much as a beta at this point anyway.

About all I seem to have energy for is bitching on my LJ. ;-)